2v 4.6 --> 3v 5.4

[tire]

i have found very few people that have done this swap. the 4v or 2v 5.4's are a more popular swap, but that's not how the cookie crumbled.

goal:

swap in the 5.4 for as cheap as possible, making no upgrades unless neccessary to replace said part anyways.

what i have:

*00 gt 5spd (stock)

*a low mileage 2005 3v 5.4 f-series truck motor, complete from oil pan to air filter, wiring harness, computer, fly. just lacks accessories, but i'm hoping to reuse some of my 4.6's.

i'm going into this swap nearly blind (i'm fully aware what a PITA it'll be, but i have a tendency to be stubborn and have access to lots of tools). my goal is bang-for-the-buck performance. this translates into i just want the motor in the car for now. suspension tuning/lightening the car/bolt-ons, etc. will have to wait a long time. i got the car (wrecked) for a total of 500$ and the 5.4 for 600$... are you getting the picture yet? btw anyone interested in a v10 triton motor?

so far i have a battery relocation kit i'll be installing when i return to cali. the battery is a truck battery with 700+ cca's so no problems there.

it turns out a 4" cowl won't cover the intake... the 5.4 is 6.5" taller than the 4.6. i'm still unsure what to do for a hood, but as the car is going in for paint relatively soon i'll have to address that before the motor swap beings. i have become decent at fiberglass repair and sculpting, so i may turn it into a mach 1 type shaker-ish looking hood and just cut my stock hood. i don't want a 6"+ rediculous hood on a slow daily driver.

Q's: (updated 12/16)

*is this swap legal?

surprising news.

this swap is 50 state legal. it doesn't apply to anyone here but myself, but california rules are as follows:

1) if engine must be same year or newer
2) must retain all emission components and work (still has to be smog checked)
3) if the engine type was never an option for the vehicle, it has to be the same size or larger.

i talked at-length with a 'smog referree' and he said i shouldn't have any trouble getting OK'd so long as my cats still work, and all of that obvious stuff.

*the tb is fly by wire aka no cable. i understand that this will further complicate the swap and i would prefer a regular tb anyways. will this cause a complication with the computer to put a regular tb on?
???????????


*i'm replacing the motor mounts, but i want to know how the aftermarket ones differ from the stock replacements. and if the price difference is small enough to warrant buying the aftermarket ones.

*the tranny will bolt right up to the 5.4 as the 5.4s are just taller decked 4.6s, but is there anything in this dept. that i should know about? the fly is an 8 bolt btw not a 6 like stock.

*being that the engine is complete and has the computer and everything pretty much i'll need to get her at least running, would a custom tune be recommended? i imagine most reading this would respond that yes, of course, but keep in mind the tune would cost as much as what i got the motor for. and 365tq on 87 octane is plenty for me at this point!

A: i have a plan of attack now for the wiring harness. it turns out reusing the stock harness and extending a few of the sensors is the easiest way to go about it. the motors share the same sensors. this will allow me to use the stock computer and retain all functions of the car without painfully rewiring everything. as for a tune, the stock computer (i've been told) will "work" but a custom tune will be needed. i guess i'll go ahead and find some bigger injectors, install the rear gears, and tune for 91 oct if i'm going to have to get it tuned.
CRAP< ALL THAT NOISE MAY NOT WORK..... i'll update when i do it. fark!


*will the stock cooling system be sufficient? the only change planned is a 55gpm meziere elec. water pump.
A: it's not looking good that the stock system will keep up with the motor. more than likely i'll get it in and running, and monitor the hell out of the water temp. i've also been told electric water pumps aren't a good idea on a street car but i'm not convinced. i'm going to contact meziere tomorrow.

*will the oil pan fit w/ the stock k member?

*what accessories from a 4.6 will fit on the 5.4?

*does anyone have feedback for underdrive pullies of diff. brands?

*best way to drop the motor in?

A: from below

i may keep this thread alive over time as i have more Q's, if anyone with experience or knowledge feels like advising.

looks like this but dirtier

FIRST DRAFT

3v 5.4 swap

PARTS

Complete motor
Wires of correct size to extend some sensors of stock wiring harness
Quick-disconnects for said wires, soldering iron, material, etc.
3v 4.6 driver’s side exhaust manifold
3v 4.6 instrument cluster
3v 4.6 pedal assembly
Custom hoses for radiator
Temp 160 deg
1 stage colder plugs
Hood????? TBD
Motor mounts
Meziere pump and male wiring connector thing
Get bolts and order needed bits and pieces for the motor that are not on it anymore
Serpentine belt length????

SWAP PREP

Install battery relocation kit
Machine shop evaluation and suggestions (flywheels ok, rotating assembly, etc.)
Remove any accessories I don’t want anymore from car
Attach accessories that need to be bought separate to 5.4
Bolt on under drive pullies to 5.4
Get new belt that works. Try to bypass the water pump.
Mock-up stock wiring harness wire lengths to sensors and use quick disconnects on stock harness on car to ease install
Install 3v 4.6 driver’s side exhaust manifold

SWAP

Install pedal ass./gauges
Lift car
Drain radiator, tranny, a/c
Brace k member
Unbolt tranny, k member
Lower motor out of the car, store it
Install new motor mounts
Swap remaining accessories over to the new motor
Make sure belt is good
Put new motor in
Bolt k member, tranny back
Fill tranny
Lower car down and get hoses on
Fill radiator
Install wiring harness to sensors
??? What am I missing.

POST SWAP

Have a tech charge my a/c again
Reliable tuner in the area if needed
Figure out a hood that’ll work

[keg65]

you have a V10?
how complete?
How much?

[tire]

Originally Posted by keg65

you have a V10?
how complete?
How much?

pm sent.

[tiptone]

That truck intake is going to kill you when it comes to performance. I know you can do a 2V 5.4 swap using the 2V mustang intake with adapter plates. If you can't get a different intake I think you'll be so disappointed with the outcome as to not make it worthwhile.

The rods in the 5.4 block won't handle much (anything ?) over about 5500 RPMs without putting a window in the block. Even if you don't want to go all forged internals, definitely look into replacing those rods.

Here's some good info on the 4.6 3V swap and another with TONS of info on the 4.6 to 5.4 swap, both will be useful if you haven't seen them yet. Good luck with the swap and be sure to keep the thread updated.

[tire]

Originally Posted by tiptone

That truck intake is going to kill you when it comes to performance. I know you can do a 2V 5.4 swap using the 2V mustang intake with adapter plates. If you can't get a different intake I think you'll be so disappointed with the outcome as to not make it worthwhile.

i was initially worried, but after speaking with two guys that went 2v 5.4 (both ran them as-is for a time, one converted to a car intake) it soothed my concerns.

here (BELOW) is a baseline dyno of 'assasinator' from modular depot forums. the motor is the same as mine (stock 3v 5.4) only mods are an x pipe and some other negligible bolt-on. i don't think it'll drive too much like a truck motor (keep in mind the mod motor family began with the f150 in 97 (4.6) to accomodate the growing segment of car buyers that wanted a truck, but just drove it around like a car. the ohc mod motors were basically a compromise that still had good tq but had better street manners and reliability. and maybe i'll be eating my words, but i'm just going to have to find out. the cheapest route is the goal.

Originally Posted by tiptone

The rods in the 5.4 block won't handle much (anything ?) over about 5500 RPMs without putting a window in the block. Even if you don't want to go all forged internals, definitely look into replacing those rods.

i will be talking to a good shop when i get back and i'll definitely ask them about this.

Originally Posted by tiptone

Here's some good info on the 4.6 3V swap and another with TONS of info on the 4.6 to 5.4 swap, both will be useful if you haven't seen them yet. Good luck with the swap and be sure to keep the thread updated.

thanks!

[96greengt]

I'm in.... but I'll comment later, gonna go eat.

I have a tip or 2 for you Austin...

[tiptone]

Originally Posted by tire

i was initially worried, but after speaking with two guys that went 2v 5.4 (both ran them as-is for a time, one converted to a car intake) it soothed my concerns.

No doubt it will work, and will make good peak numbers.

Originally Posted by tire

here (BELOW) is a baseline dyno of 'assasinator' from modular depot forums. the motor is the same as mine (stock 3v 5.4) only mods are an x pipe and some other negligible bolt-on. i don't think it'll drive too much like a truck motor (keep in mind the mod motor family began with the f150 in 97 (4.6) to accomodate the growing segment of car buyers that wanted a truck, but just drove it around like a car. the ohc mod motors were basically a compromise that still had good tq but had better street manners and reliability. and maybe i'll be eating my words, but i'm just going to have to find out. the cheapest route is the goal.

That graph shows exactly what I'm talking about, the peak numbers look great (torque anyway) but notice that he hits it at just over 3600 RPM. You really want to be able to move that out to 4500 or so. That's the biggest difference between both of the mod motors (4.6 and 5.4) between Mustang and F-150, the intakes largely determine where the peak torque is made.

Those numbers do look quite a bit better as far as peaks than the 5.4 2Vs I've seen with similar mods. I'm very interested in what you can do with it. If/when I ever have to get into the bottom end of mine I'll be rebuilding it as a 5.4 2V.

P.S. The 4.6 and 5.4 showed up in the F-150 in 97 and the 4.6 was in the Mustang in 96. The 4.6 made its debut with Ford in the Lincoln Town Car in 91.

[96greengt]

Sounds like someone ^^ knows a bit of modular history..


Anyway, why not just do a 3V head swap to a 2V and get 350 hp to the ground with motor alone?

[tire]

Originally Posted by 96greengt

Anyway, why not just do a 3V head swap to a 2V and get 350 hp to the ground with motor alone?

are you talking 4.6? either way, a 3v 5.4 will only put around 250 to the ground stock. am i missing something?

and i'm looking forward to your .02 as well. i think you did a 4v swap correct?

Originally Posted by tiptone

No doubt it will work, and will make good peak numbers.

That graph shows exactly what I'm talking about, the peak numbers look great (torque anyway) but notice that he hits it at just over 3600 RPM. You really want to be able to move that out to 4500 or so. That's the biggest difference between both of the mod motors (4.6 and 5.4) between Mustang and F-150, the intakes largely determine where the peak torque is made..

i follow. this is just going to be a play-it-by-ear thing... i'm not going to race her (slicks and all) until i beef up the driveline anyways and i'll def. report back with my .02. i rarely have even driven anything over 250rwhp much less 340rwtq, so i dunno.

Originally Posted by tiptone

Those numbers do look quite a bit better as far as peaks than the 5.4 2Vs I've seen with similar mods. I'm very interested in what you can do with it. If/when I ever have to get into the bottom end of mine I'll be rebuilding it as a 5.4 2V.

are you going to reuse your stock heads for ease of install? plan on boosting the 2v, or keeping it n/a?

originally the plan was to put a triton v10 in an sn95, however the firewall was going to have to be moved back 4" (that's right... crazy huh) and while i'm short i'm not 'that' short and would complicate things.

then i picked up the 5.4 for cheap and thought about only using the bottom end and do what you are planning, but not rebuild the shortblock. then i got ballsy and now i want to salvage those 3v being that they're dang near as good as the 4v. i fancy turbos these days and they don't need crazy exhaust flow like hi-po s/c'd.

Originally Posted by tiptone

P.S. The 4.6 and 5.4 showed up in the F-150 in 97 and the 4.6 was in the Mustang in 96. The 4.6 made its debut with Ford in the Lincoln Town Car in 91.

nice, another wrinkle in the brain. they named it something silly, like the triton name for the trucks, but it was something else for the towncars... help me out..?

i'm out for now, my beer pong title requires defending!

austin

[tiptone]

Originally Posted by tire

i follow. this is just going to be a play-it-by-ear thing... i'm not going to race her (slicks and all) until i beef up the driveline anyways and i'll def. report back with my .02. i rarely have even driven anything over 250rwhp much less 340rwtq, so i dunno.

Don't get me wrong, I bet that car is still a blast to drive on the street.

Originally Posted by tire

are you going to reuse your stock heads for ease of install? plan on boosting the 2v, or keeping it n/a?

originally the plan was to put a triton v10 in an sn95, however the firewall was going to have to be moved back 4" (that's right... crazy huh) and while i'm short i'm not 'that' short and would complicate things.

then i picked up the 5.4 for cheap and thought about only using the bottom end and do what you are planning, but not rebuild the shortblock. then i got ballsy and now i want to salvage those 3v being that they're dang near as good as the 4v. i fancy turbos these days and they don't need crazy exhaust flow like hi-po s/c'd.

I'm looking to make it into a really fun street car. I'm not interested in lots of street racing, no trips to the drag strip, etc. I've been fairly content with this 4.6 since I bought it new in 2000, but it would be nice to get a little of the low end torque back that we gave up coming from the pushrod 302.

I'll likely go with mildly ported heads, mild street cam and the HPS intake that'll bolt up to 2V heads on a 5.4 block. I'll be leaving lots of HP/torque untapped, but I'm not building a race car.

Originally Posted by tire

nice, another wrinkle in the brain. they named it something silly, like the triton name for the trucks, but it was something else for the towncars... help me out..?

Hmm, I know some of the 4V engines out there (not Cobras that were assembled by hand) go by the Intech moniker (Navigator for example). I'm not sure if they gave it a fancy name in 4.6/2V format in the Town Car.

[2k4mk1]

I seem to remeber reading somewher that the K member has to change. I believe
that either UPR or Maximum has one that will allow a 5.4 to fit.

Try treading thru this on Modular depot......
Who has a 5.4 Mustang?? not GT500 - Modular Depot Forums

[psiperformance]

where do i begin

First the variable cam timing will not work and become a issue so you will need to install cam lockout plates to avoid cam slap on the springs in the factory cam gear

Second No you can absolulty never remove the drive by wire and use the 3 valve ecu its a intergral part of the engines tuning and tables it HAS to have the drive by wire hooked up.

Third there is no adaptor to put a car intake on that motor available so you would have to get somethng custom made .

Fourth the cam sensors are so different in their action and operation due to the variable cam timing you cant just hook a 2 valve ecu up and exspect it to run the motor the 2 valve cam sensors have a single pulse per rotation of the cam the 3 valve has mutilpe pulses

the swap you are refering to was IN a 05 up so it already had a 3 valve ecu and the drive by wire so that was not a problem

fifth if you KEEP the drive by wire you will have to get a pedal assembly from a 05 up and mount it in your car some how wich also means the wiring etc for that.

you're ac unit and power steering pump will bolt up


basicly you have two choices keep the 3 valve ecu and harnes and some how adapt the DBW pedal or run a stand alone system like a fast etc

in the end the word cheap wont be applicable to this project.

[tire]

Originally Posted by psiperformance

where do i begin

First the variable cam timing will not work and become a issue so you will need to install cam lockout plates to avoid cam slap on the springs in the factory cam gear

can you elaborate? as in something similar in function to vtec for honda, where the cam profile changes at increased rpms to make more top end power?

"cam lockout plates" sounds like a job for my machine shop. care to school me?

Originally Posted by psiperformance

Second No you can absolulty never remove the drive by wire and use the 3 valve ecu its a intergral part of the engines tuning and tables it HAS to have the drive by wire hooked up.

would a custom tune + regular tb work? or would it be easier to get the pedals for driveby wire?

Originally Posted by psiperformance

Fourth the cam sensors are so different in their action and operation due to the variable cam timing you cant just hook a 2 valve ecu up and exspect it to run the motor the 2 valve cam sensors have a single pulse per rotation of the cam the 3 valve has mutilpe pulses

do you mind breaking this down in laymen's terms... i take this to mean an independent system such as FAST will be needed in this case with custom tune? or do i have to use the truck's computer and rewire every single thing?

Originally Posted by psiperformance

the swap you are refering to was IN a 05 up so it already had a 3 valve ecu and the drive by wire so that was not a problem

fifth if you KEEP the drive by wire you will have to get a pedal assembly from a 05 up and mount it in your car some how wich also means the wiring etc for that.

argh.

Originally Posted by psiperformance

you're ac unit and power steering pump will bolt upj

its about time something went my way.

Originally Posted by psiperformance

basicly you have two choices keep the 3 valve ecu and harnes and some how adapt the DBW pedal or run a stand alone system like a fast etc

in the end the word cheap wont be applicable to this project.

wow i got ahead of myself there... i appreciate the imput. (but i still don't like hearing how it's going to be $$$ )

austin

[tire]

Originally Posted by tiptone

Hmm, I know some of the 4V engines out there (not Cobras that were assembled by hand) go by the Intech moniker (Navigator for example). I'm not sure if they gave it a fancy name in 4.6/2V format in the Town Car.

Intech! ding ding ding ding... that's it. does the 2v 5.4 swap have a timetable. its nice hearing someone admit to just wanting a quicker street car with all access. and driveability instead of kids saying just how fast they want to go with no holds barred. :disturbed

[tiptone]

Originally Posted by tire

Intech! ding ding ding ding... that's it. does the 2v 5.4 swap have a timetable. its nice hearing someone admit to just wanting a quicker street car with all access. and driveability instead of kids saying just how fast they want to go with no holds barred. :disturbed

HPS is supposed to be releasing the intake similar to the Hardball'r that will bolt up to 2V heads on a 5.4 block just after the first of the year. Honestly using that intake (or a PI intake with adaptor plates), 2V heads and your block there would be no timetable really. Use that 5.4 shortblock, stick PI heads/cams and the HPS intake on the top and use the accessories off of the Mustang. Bung, you're done after a tune. 90% of people wouldn't know at a glance that it wasn't a 4.6.

I've not ready about anybody keeping it that stock while putting it back together, but it is fairly straight forward. You'd probably be looking at HP/torque number just over that of stock, but would respond much better to heads/cams/boltons than a 4.6.

I love the idea of the 5.4 (even 2V) because you should be able to hit 300hp on motor without having to go hog-wild with the heads/cams and when you get there instead of having just over 300 ft/lb of torque you should be closer to 400.

[tire]

Originally Posted by tiptone

HPS is supposed to be releasing the intake similar to the Hardball'r that will bolt up to 2V heads on a 5.4 block just after the first of the year. Honestly using that intake (or a PI intake with adaptor plates), 2V heads and your block there would be no timetable really. Use that 5.4 shortblock, stick PI heads/cams and the HPS intake on the top and use the accessories off of the Mustang. Bung, you're done after a tune. 90% of people wouldn't know at a glance that it wasn't a 4.6.

i really want to keep the 3v heads. the PI 2v's are decent but like i said i am greedy. for me i only care about power output, regardless of the source. if i could get a vtwin motorcycle motor to make a lot of power reliably but cheaper than another route, i'd prob go for it. a 2v 5.4 is going to lose a good deal of power.

Originally Posted by tiptone

I love the idea of the 5.4 (even 2V) because you should be able to hit 300hp on motor without having to go hog-wild with the heads/cams and when you get there instead of having just over 300 ft/lb of torque you should be closer to 400.

no replacement for displacement, except maybe a 2.3L kenne.

[96greengt]

Originally Posted by tire

are you talking 4.6? either way, a 3v 5.4 will only put around 250 to the ground stock. am i missing something?

and i'm looking forward to your .02 as well. i think you did a 4v swap correct?

No, I did a built 2V in mine and expect it to be well over 300 hp to the wheels once dyno tuned.

Originally Posted by psiperformance

where do i begin


Third there is no adaptor to put a car intake on that motor available so you would have to get somethng custom made .

Incorrect, like Tiptone mentioned earlier, HPS has an intake developed for the 5.4 using an adapter plate. I have a link, but it is well over 30+ pages and I do not care to read each page until I find the source, but it is there.

Anyone intrested in 5.4L swaps, in here. Need you to opine. - Mustang Forums

[psiperformance]

Thats a TWO VALVE 5.4 adaptor the three valves have totaly diffent ports and bolt patterns IT WILL NOT WORK im not saying that a 3 valve plate cant be made but as of right now im not aware of anyone who makes one.

there is only one person in that whole 107 page thread who talks about a three valve adapotr and hes trying to whittle something out of wood then get a copy machined from aluminum either way not going to be cheap for the final product.

[r3dn3ck]

I've done the swap on a 2v. If you ping 3v2000GT on mustangboards he can help you out with the details of 3v conversion.

FWIW, I'm happy as hell with the results of mine. I haven't even fully opened the power spigot yet and it's already a threat to tires everywhere.

Here's the baseline out of the gate dyno with 279/332:

[r3dn3ck]

Originally Posted by 96greengt

Incorrect, like Tiptone mentioned earlier, HPS has an intake developed for the 5.4 using an adapter plate. I have a link, but it is well over 30+ pages and I do not care to read each page until I find the source, but it is there.

Anyone intrested in 5.4L swaps, in here. Need you to opine. - Mustang Forums

nope... that 5.4 intake that's about to come out is a dedicated 5.4 piece. NO ADAPTER PLATES. I'm the guy using their intake (modded) on a set of plates. It's a bad mofo... I like it. I've worked with HPS since the beginning of this project to get it off the ground and get the intake made. It'll even fit under a stock GT hood... no cowl needed. It's loaded with neato features.

here's a link to my dyno sheet:

run1-54-simple_graph-only.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

[r3dn3ck]

Ok... I guess if you edit your post it gets deleted. Weird.

The intake that HPS is coming out with does not use plates. I'm the one that currently uses their 4.6 intake on plates (heavily ported). The new intake will fit under a stock hood and does not use plates.

54

[psiperformance]

again its a two valve intake this whole post is about a 3 valve motor.

so he would need to use the 2 valve intake and a custom adaptor plate for the 3 valve 5.4 to change the bolt patern shapt etc

[assasinator]

the stock pcm and sensors all work. a few teeth on the passenger exciter wheel needs to be removed for cam position.

intake will need to be custom for more than 290 rwhp/350 rwtq. MMR is the only one.

it isn't cheap.

if you choose the stock pcm use a 4.6 2v after market upper elbow and a 75mm TB, it will fit under the stock hood easily. make a simple adapter plate out of SS.

[assasinator]

why in the world would you go with 2v on a motor that already exceeds head flow of the finest 2v? at .300 lift? rediculous.


i will give REd the space because the hPS might do wonders, but so far his numbers are exactly what most 5.4 2v guys with thousands in their motors get... 290/340.

throw in the same mods and money on a 5.4 3v and expect 400 rwhp or more.


Ed olin ran 11.4 at 119 mph with :11.4:1 (9.8 stock) CRatio, windage tray, electric water pump, Aussie short runner aluminum intake, 90mm TB, 104 mm MAF, TUNE, slightly bigger cams, H-pipe, no mufflers, weight reductions(3200lbs with driver), gears, DOT slicks. thats ~390rwhp for those of you counting.

stock heads/springs, no VCT.


i am sorry, but all-motor 5.4 2v can NEVER EVER EVER reach that power level. EVER.


i applaud 5.4 2v guys, they have great rides, and monster power and torque, but a bolt-on cammed 4.6 3v makes 345rwhp,332 rwtq. and a 5.4 3v will make more with intake and exhaust.


please quit trying to talk a fellow into such a move. his stock 300hp/365tq 5.4 3v will do fine.

[assasinator]

really not trying to bag on 2v. but no way he should step down to it if he already has 3v.

[tire]

just to add more to this thread, Mr. Fisher (assassinator) sent me this as well.

" read your thread..



first you will need a gauge set from an f-150 or 05+ stang.

you will need the PWM throttle peddle from an 05+ gt or f-150.

keep the drive-by -wire, the pcm will not operate without it

if you are automatic you need a 4r70w. if not, may not work right. torque management is an issue, but a custom tuner can get around that.

to get it in, it requires a driver's side 4.6 3v manifold. there are no headers that will even get close. you will need to beat the firewall to fit an exhaust pipe. i did some cast iron welding and used a collector from the 5.4 3v part and welded it to the 4.6 3v right after it clears the steering shaft. pointing almost straight down. works fine with no restrictions.


you will need a 3" cowl to clear the aftermarket 5.4 3v CAI.


bigger radiator.

various hoses need to be made. otherwise it's straight forward.

using the 04+ f-150 pcm will afford you more power than me. expect 280-290 rwhp and 350 rwtq with full bolt-ons.



misnomers: it can handle 6000 rpm, not one more. keep it 5700 or less for long term safety.

the crank is forged steel and can handle 800hp and 8400 rpm. stock.

the heads flow 235 cfm stock and 305 cfm maxxed out.

the intake is designed for 4000 rpm. can be tuned for 5500 power.

pcm has a 5100 rpm stock rev limit. torque managment kills it.



add forgings and custom intake, and cams for big rpm hp. the limit with $1500.00 2" custom longtubes is 466hp at ~7200. all motor.


your stock pcm will run it fine but no VCT, vct which has to go with bigger cams anyway. if you hear ratting in the valvetrain it is normal, but the phasers could be failing.

change to cold plugs immediately. and anti-sieze them now. stock plugs break off easily.

the torque stock is 295 lb-ft at 1500 and rises to 365 by 3500. crank numbers. in you rcar expect numbers like mine, but with more hp with the f-150 pcm or manual tranny.


these heads flow around the same as AFR 185's stock. heads flow is more than enough to kill 4.6 3v's. only with an intake to support it. an

an aussie BOSS230 intake is superior to this plastic bit can't be found hardly. aussies make around 325 rwhp with only bolt-ons."

[tire]

FIRST DRAFT

3v 5.4 swap

PARTS

Complete motor
Wires of correct size to extend some sensors of stock wiring harness
Quick-disconnects for said wires, soldering iron, material, etc.
3v 4.6 driver’s side exhaust manifold
3v 4.6 instrument cluster
3v 4.6 pedal assembly
Custom hoses for radiator
Temp 160 deg
1 stage colder plugs
Hood????? TBD
Motor mounts
Meziere bolts and male wiring connector thing
Get bolts and order needed bits and pieces for the motor that are not on it anymore
Serpentine belt length????

SWAP PREP

Install battery relocation kit
Machine shop evaluation and suggestions (flywheels ok, rotating assembly, etc.)
Remove any accessories I don’t want anymore from car
Attach accessories that need to be bought separate to 5.4
Bolt on under drive pullies to 5.4
Get new belt that works. Try to bypass the water pump.
Mock-up stock wiring harness wire lengths to sensors and use quick disconnects on stock harness on car to ease install
Install 3v 4.6 driver’s side exhaust manifold

SWAP

Lift car
Drain radiator, tranny, a/c
Brace k member
Unbolt tranny, k member
Lower motor out of the car
Install new motor mounts
Swap remaining accessories over to the new motor
Make sure belt is good
Put new motor in
Bolt k member, tranny back
Fill tranny
Lower car down and get hoses on
Fill radiator
??? What am I missing.

POST SWAP

Have a tech charge my a/c again
Reliable tuner in the area if needed
Figure out hood that’ll work, or mess with air filter housing/maf to make it work under stock hood.

[assasinator]

no need for mounts or stuff.

use 4.6 2v motor mounts.

use 4.6 2v oil pan and oil pick-up with gasket. you will see why a gasket instead of o-ring.

is your car a V6? if so, you need k-member, if it's a 4.6 car no need to unbolt it or anything else with it. no need to lower the motor or any crap like that. it's low profile enough as it is.

[assasinator]

if you can get a 4.6 4v windage tray do so. make it fit. the 4;.6 2v oil pan needs to be modded to clear the first two counter weights. bend the scrapers out of the way.

[assasinator]

the fact is this motor likes a 3.5" inlet. if you use the f-150 stuff there are tunes all over the place for it.

[psiperformance]

Originally Posted by tire

just to add more to this thread, Mr. Fisher (assassinator) sent me this as well.

" read your thread..



first you will need a gauge set from an f-150 or 05+ stang.

you will need the PWM throttle peddle from an 05+ gt or f-150.

keep the drive-by -wire, the pcm will not operate without it

if you are automatic you need a 4r70w. if not, may not work right. torque management is an issue, but a custom tuner can get around that.

to get it in, it requires a driver's side 4.6 3v manifold. there are no headers that will even get close. you will need to beat the firewall to fit an exhaust pipe. i did some cast iron welding and used a collector from the 5.4 3v part and welded it to the 4.6 3v right after it clears the steering shaft. pointing almost straight down. works fine with no restrictions.


you will need a 3" cowl to clear the aftermarket 5.4 3v CAI.


bigger radiator.

various hoses need to be made. otherwise it's straight forward.

using the 04+ f-150 pcm will afford you more power than me. expect 280-290 rwhp and 350 rwtq with full bolt-ons.



misnomers: it can handle 6000 rpm, not one more. keep it 5700 or less for long term safety.

the crank is forged steel and can handle 800hp and 8400 rpm. stock.

the heads flow 235 cfm stock and 305 cfm maxxed out.

the intake is designed for 4000 rpm. can be tuned for 5500 power.

pcm has a 5100 rpm stock rev limit. torque managment kills it.



add forgings and custom intake, and cams for big rpm hp. the limit with $1500.00 2" custom longtubes is 466hp at ~7200. all motor.


your stock pcm will run it fine but no VCT, vct which has to go with bigger cams anyway. if you hear ratting in the valvetrain it is normal, but the phasers could be failing.

change to cold plugs immediately. and anti-sieze them now. stock plugs break off easily.

the torque stock is 295 lb-ft at 1500 and rises to 365 by 3500. crank numbers. in you rcar expect numbers like mine, but with more hp with the f-150 pcm or manual tranny.


these heads flow around the same as AFR 185's stock. heads flow is more than enough to kill 4.6 3v's. only with an intake to support it. an

an aussie BOSS230 intake is superior to this plastic bit can't be found hardly. aussies make around 325 rwhp with only bolt-ons."

ok im trying to come to terms with a few statements here

1. these heads flow the same as a 185 afr ? UM NO a afr 185 flows in the 285 cfm range and he stated a mniut ago this head flows 235 cfm thats not even comparable to a 165 afr.


2. these heads kill 4.6 3 v heads .. um they are THE SAME HEAD if your refering to 5.4 3 valve vs 4.6 3 valve

so many contradicting statments has me confused as to what hes comapring to ? is he comparing a 5.4 3 valve head and a 4.6 3 valve ? because um they are the same head the only difference is the short block.

or is he tryign to compare 4 valve to 3 valve

[assasinator]

ok my bad. i quoted bad info.

but don't even try to tell me what is what on 3v.

of course all 3v heads are the same.

165cc Street Small Block Ford: Aluminum cylinder head manufacturing and flow dynamics so the heads flow is similar to 165's.


you have shown me.


now lets move on.

fully ported 3v's are a match for afr 185's.


185cc Street Small Block Ford: Aluminum cylinder head manufacturing and flow dynamics

[assasinator]

now the point of killing 4.6 3v's is the motor output with supporting mods.


330 cu.in > 281. you have to turn the 4.6 3v to 7200 to get 345rwhp from 281 cubes. the 5.4 ed ran made 390rwhp at 6800.


that was the 5.4 3v > 4.6 3v thing. i thought it was plain and clear.

[assasinator]

if you read the statement the english meaning of "heads flow is more than enough to kill 4.6 3v's. only with an intake to support it." is that 5.4 3v has enough head flow to out power a 4.6 3v. of course they have the same head.


you seem to be taking this personal or something.


he is trying a noble idea. you are wrong telling him what he must do to accomplish it. stop trying to be an 'expert' and help the guy do it. thatr's what performance shops do.





and 185 s flow in the 277 range. not 285.

165's 244 is comparable.

[tire]

Originally Posted by assasinator

no need for mounts or stuff.
use 4.6 2v motor mounts.

i will be using 4.6 motor mounts, but the car is 8 years old and if i'm going to be there already, i'll go ahead and replace them.

Originally Posted by assasinator

use 4.6 2v oil pan and oil pick-up with gasket. you will see why a gasket instead of o-ring.

will-do on the oil pan. that'll be a relief not to have to worry about oil pan clearance/leakage/etc probs!

Originally Posted by assasinator

is your car a V6? if so, you need k-member, if it's a 4.6 car no need to unbolt it or anything else with it. no need to lower the motor or any crap like that. it's low profile enough as it is.

the car is a 4.6 (other specs on it is listed in the first post).

Originally Posted by assasinator

if you can get a 4.6 4v windage tray do so. make it fit. the 4;.6 2v oil pan needs to be modded to clear the first two counter weights. bend the scrapers out of the way.

any extra info on the windage tray? "make it fit" needs clarifying, if you have any experience to contribute. pics perhaps (might as well ask)?

Originally Posted by assasinator

the fact is this motor likes a 3.5" inlet. if you use the f-150 stuff there are tunes all over the place for it.

i'm going to try to reuse the stock computer to ease install as i won't have to rewire the whole dang car. i need to understand more about cvt disabling, is this somethign i can do myself, or a custom tune will be needed to even get it running? follow what i'm asking?

[assasinator]

the vct is defaulted in the fully advanced position. if you use you stock pcm it is already disabled. you will need a timing adjuster from BOSS330 racing if you go with a cam bigger than a stage 3 comp cams. up to that cam springs are necessary only.


it will just run with the stock tune. VE is way off so it will surge and be pretty much undrivable. it will run way rich for most PCM's.

you can use you stock injectors so that will help. 24lb is really needed for it though.

N/A 24lbs is enough.

TIM Barth at mph is a good source for a tune. he will do mine when i finally stop making major changes.

[tire]

yeah i can understand VE being off, but at least from the 2v 5.4 guys i've heard they got the car running OK, let the computer relearn the motor, then drive it to a tuner ASAP.

are 19#ers stock, because i can't find specs... they have to be 19 or 21 as those are the only ones that make sense and are ford only options below 24s that i know of.

[96greengt]

Originally Posted by tire

y
are 19#ers stock, because i can't find specs... they have to be 19 or 21 as those are the only ones that make sense and are ford only options below 24s that i know of.

If they are yellow/orange looking tops, they are the 19#, if they are pink, then they are the 22.5# injectors and the light blue are 24#.

[tire]

thank you 96 green gt, i'll commit that to memory. blue's are 42#ers, right?

[96greengt]

Originally Posted by tire

thank you 96 green gt, i'll commit that to memory. blue's are 42#ers, right?

#19 Bosch = Orange/Yellow
#22 Bosch = Pink
#24 Nippondenso = Blue
#30 Bosch = Red
#42 Bosch = Green
#83 Siemens = Black