[timpryor]

This will be one of two things I agree with brent on, I may not(& in this case Do not) agree with what Brent has to say but we live in the USA and he has EVERY right to say it.


the other is how dead sexy SN95's are

[thesource]

I am not saying he does not have the right to voice his "opinion" . Thats a right , unfortunately , that he has being an American . I am saying that he does not have the right to put himself on the same level as a person that has actually went out and fought for something they believed in (whether it be in the military or anything other type of sacrifice such as civil rights or whatever) .

There is nothing FREE about freedom . I am sure there are soldiers fighting in Iraq right now that cannot stand Bush . I am sure there are soldiers over in Iraq fighting a war that they do not think we should be in to begin with . This is no different than any other war . I cannot think of a single war over the past 200 years that has been 100% error free or 100% fought for all the right reasons . Every war sucks to be in but it goes with the territory . If you want to be the leader , sometimes you have to make tough decisions and those decisions might not always be the right ones in the end but you feel they were the right ones at the time .

[Brent]

I am saying that he does not have the right to put himself on the same level as a person that has actually went out and fought for something they believed in (whether it be in the military or anything other type of sacrifice such as civil rights or whatever) .

Maybe one day you will understand that I don't have to go out and fight or go out and run for office or start my own charity to disagree that this country is going in the wrong direction.

That's all I have done. I've disagreed with Bush's policies and I've disagreed with Obama's.

The problem is you don't like my opinions so you try to make me feel guilty for giving my views because I haven't seen the front line of a war or you try to make it like my opinions are not worth much because I haven't seen the front line of a war.

When you can get pass the fact that you don't like my opinions, stop insulting me and overall just grow up then maybe we can talk about the issues instead of every political/religion thread turning into you talking trash about me and belittling me.

This thread's topic is about religion. Yet, here you are talking about how my opinions aren't worth much because I haven't served in the military. Why? I don't have to serve in the army to think discrimination against someones beliefs is wrong.

[TheDan]

Brent I wont go too deep cuz you and I both know we dont agree on shit.

But..coming from someone who has served...

When one enlists he raises his right hand and says

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

Therefore the troop in question about being an Atheist should have known from day 1 that the military is an organization that looks to and believes in God.

[Brent]

Therefore the troop in question about being an Atheist should have known from day 1 that the military is an organization that looks to and believes in God.

That may be true. However, it is still unconstitutional to discriminate against someones religion. The article says that he lost his faith during duty but instead of discharging him, if the case was truly that he could no longer serve in the Army because of his lack of faith, he instead had his life put at a higher risk due to his lack of faith.

[Firstlady]

Mommy bird is watching....

[TheDan]

Originally Posted by Brent

That may be true. However, it is still unconstitutional to discriminate against someones religion. The article says that he lost his faith during duty but instead of discharging him, if the case was truly that he could no longer serve in the Army because of his lack of faith, he instead had his life put at a higher risk due to his lack of faith.

Explain how his life was put into any worse danger due to his religion?

I agree he should not have been discriminated against and should have been less than honorably discharged.

[thesource]

Originally Posted by Brent

Maybe one day you will understand that I don't have to go out and fight or go out and run for office or start my own charity to disagree that this country is going in the wrong direction.

That's all I have done. I've disagreed with Bush's policies and I've disagreed with Obama's.

The problem is you don't like my opinions so you try to make me feel guilty for giving my views because I haven't seen the front line of a war or you try to make it like my opinions are not worth much because I haven't seen the front line of a war.

When you can get pass the fact that you don't like my opinions, stop insulting me and overall just grow up then maybe we can talk about the issues instead of every political/religion thread turning into you talking trash about me and belittling me.

This thread's topic is about religion. Yet, here you are talking about how my opinions aren't worth much because I haven't served in the military. Why? I don't have to serve in the army to think discrimination against someones beliefs is wrong.

Brent your opinions are just that and nothing more .........

[thesource]

Originally Posted by TheDan

Therefore the troop in question about being an Atheist should have known from day 1 that the military is an organization that looks to and believes in God.

Its like being gay in the military . Just because you are a certain way does not mean you should go out of your way to let everyone else know about it . If the guy was Atheist , fine . There is no need to make a federal case about it . Do your job and keep your mouth shut about it .........

[Brent]

Brent your opinions are just that and nothing more .........

I'm glad you finally got that. So I guess no more "You should have served in the military" before you can talk about America in an unfavorable way crap?

Originally Posted by thesource

Its like being gay in the military . Just because you are a certain way does not mean you should go out of your way to let everyone else know about it . If the guy was Atheist , fine . There is no need to make a federal case about it . Do your job and keep your mouth shut about it .........

What kind of attitude is that? That's a terrible attitude. Don't talk to me about my attitude towards America when you are sitting here telling others to shut up and do their job, even after they lost promotions because they refused to pray. He couldn't do his job. They wouldn't let him. He didn't go out of his way to let everyone know. He simply refused to take part in something that should have never been required to begin with. What is wrong with someone standing up for something that they feel is wrong?

Please accept the fact that not everyone is going to pray to a God and that they have every right you do to stand up for what they believe in. To punish someone for refusing to pray in the military is absolutely ridiculous and I find it amazing that you do not find that unacceptable.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by TheDan

Explain how his life was put into any worse danger due to his religion?

I agree he should not have been discriminated against and should have been less than honorably discharged.

Hall said his life was threatened by other troops and the military assigned a full-time bodyguard to protect him out of fear for his safety.

From the article

[thesource]

Originally Posted by Brent

What kind of attitude is that? That's a terrible attitude. Don't talk to me about my attitude towards America when you are sitting here telling others to shut up and do their job, even after they lost promotions because they refused to pray. He couldn't do his job. They wouldn't let him. He didn't go out of his way to let everyone know. He simply refused to take part in something that should have never been required to begin with. What is wrong with someone standing up for something that they feel is wrong?

Please accept the fact that not everyone is going to pray to a God and that they have every right you do to stand up for what they believe in. To punish someone for refusing to pray in the military is absolutely ridiculous and I find it amazing that you do not find that unacceptable.

He made a choice to join the military . In the military you do what you are ordered to do . Its that simple .......

[Captainsteve57]

Brent, Atheism is not a religion. It is the lack there of.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by thesource

He made a choice to join the military . In the military you do what you are ordered to do . Its that simple .......

No it's not that simple. You can't order someone to kill thousands of civilians for no other purpose than they looked at you wrong. There are rules and you have rights. You can't discriminate against someone who refuses to pray. Cut the bullshit macho crap.

Brent, Atheism is not a religion. It is the lack there of.

Being discriminated for the lack of a religion is the same thing as being discriminated for believing in Allah instead of Jesus Christ.

[thesource]

Originally Posted by Brent

No it's not that simple. You can't order someone to kill thousands of civilians for no other purpose than they looked at you wrong. There are rules and you have rights. You can't discriminate against someone who refuses to pray. Cut the bullshit macho crap.

If you are ordered to do something , you do it . What happens in the event of a nuclear strike against the US ? Do you honestly think only bad guys will get a nuke in return ? There is going to be thousands upon thousands of innocent civilians killed by US military soldiers doing what they are ORDERED to do . If they fail to do so , they will be relieved of duty and probably court mashalled .

[Brent]

*sigh* You just don't get it right? I'm talking about the rights American soldiers have. Things that protect them from injustices while serving in the military. I'm talking about someone killing innocent people by lining them up execution style. I'm talking about orders that are against military conduct. I'm talking about a military officer throwing a live puppy off a hill. If someone orders you to throw a live puppy off the hill and you do it you should have your ass punished to some extent. I'm not talking about nuclear war. I'm asking you to be reasonable. I'm asking you to drop that macho attitude. I'm asking you to accept the fact that this soldier that refused to pray to a God has rights and that just because YOU don't agree with them doesn't mean they shouldn't exist.

I am asking you to fight for others rights of freedom the same way you fight for your right to own a gun. Just because you don't use the right that they do, does not make it any less important for this country.

[thesource]

You used an extreme example so I figured I would to . Soldiers have rights but they must also follow orders of their commanding officers . If this guy was kicked out for failing to pray , well then I guess he didn't really want to be there in the first place . As with any story , I am sure there is two sides to the story . Even if its 100% true , you are still dealing with 1 person out of how many soldiers ????

You can't base an entire theory on one person's story . I am sure the article was written to get a certain agenda across to its readers .

[egomez24]

I remember when I was in Basic Training and one of the first things my TI told us was you are now in the US Air Force and we are not a Democracy.
If you are ordered to do something by a superior no matter how much you dislike it you do it. I don't have the slightest idea about what happened to this soldier but I would almost be willing to bet it doesn't all have to do with him not wanting to pray but probably with the fact that he refused to do what he was told to do. In the military you follow orders or else there are consequences to be paid. Remember every single person in the military comes from different backgrounds with thier own unique beliefs, and opinions and that is great. I respect the fact that he doesn't want to pray but I guess he will be exercising that right as an American Civilian. For him to believe he could do what ever he wanted while serving in the military was a serious error in his part.

Originally Posted by TheDan

Brent I wont go too deep cuz you and I both know we dont agree on shit.

But..coming from someone who has served...

When one enlists he raises his right hand and says

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

Therefore the troop in question about being an Atheist should have known from day 1 that the military is an organization that looks to and believes in God.