[4eyedhatch]

fyi: my car is an 86 hatch with a 351w

i pulled into a gas station cuz my car was running really rough, it felt like it wasnt running on all cylinders. i started pulling plug wires to see if i was getting spark, and sure enough i pulled the whole left bank (1-4) and the idle didnt change but it did die a minute or so after i put the plug wires back on. i could never get it started again so i towed it to my house and i pulled all the plugs, cleaned them and put them back in i replaced the condensor and i had a friend change the points in the distributor and when i turned the key the exhuast puffed a couple of times and then it just cranks with no sign of actually trying to start. could my timing be off somehow, i cranked it a few times with out the cap on the distributor, but i know its getting a good spark now.

[4eyedhatch]

also i suppose it is possible that i put the plug wires back on the distributor wrong, could someone clarify where the number one plug wire goes on the distributor cap.

[Musclestang721]

check/change your fuel filter.. if you havent done it in awhhile.. its cheap and sometimes solves some problems... could be plugs in wrong place as well. also check the air cleaning system

[4eyedhatch]

yeah thats prolly a good idea, i know that its getting fuel cuz i can see the fuel squirt into the carb when i hit the throttle

[redrum]

dont have much to say on the topic, but... 86 hatches rule!:jeff:

[4eyedhatch]

hey redrum remember me, i used to drive the turbo civic, we raced on stone oak


and update: i put the motor at top dead center put lined up the cap with the rotor and pumped the throttle a few times, then i turned the key and i got some exhuast noise for a couple seconds and a REALLY loud backfire, i thought it was gonna start but it didnt. and now theres nothing but cranking, no backfires, nuthin

[Hammered]

flodded? are the spark plugs wet? is there spark comming out the end of the wire. (screwdriver /fenderwell or plug wire and tounge) ::jeff:

if you are getting spark out the end of the wire
and the plugs are not wet/ or you crank it for a while without ANY gas. and still nothing....got me...gremlins?

[4eyedhatch]

yes the spark is good, im wondering if the points are gapped wrong though, it could be flooded, ill go pull some plugs right now'

[4eyedhatch]

would my firing order be different considering have a crane cam

[4eyedhatch]

the plugs were not wet, but they did smell like gas

[4eyedhatch]

suppose one bad plug wire, would that keep the car from starting

[roller4v]

When you had the #1 cylinder on Top Dead Center you should not have had to move the distributer to get the rotor to point at the correct terminal on the distributer cap because the engine was runnning previously. (unless you moved it or it came loose).


It sounds to me like you may have had the timing chain jump a tooth or two. It may have jumped one when it was running very rought and then jumped another right before it completely died.

You may be able to get a rough idea by pulling the valve cover and watching the valve action as you slowly turn the engine over, but if you continue to have problems you may have to pull the timing cover to check for sure. Obviously that is a "last resort" action when you've exhausted all other possibilities.

Steve

[4eyedhatch]

well damn, i hope it didnt skip its a brand new chain, new gears too, with only couple hundred miles on them. what do i look for with the valve covers off?

[dcm4136]

Your Firing order wouldn't change. It should be 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8.

[redrum]

hey 4-eyed hatch, you have pm.

[4eyedhatch]

still no luck, im lost here guys

[roller4v]

First of all you need to confirm.

Did you have to move the distributor to get it to line back up with the cap?

Was it tightly clamped down?

If the answer to both these questions is yes, then more than likely its your timing chain.

If your not sure pull the valve cover over Cylinder one. Locate top dead center. I use a straw in the spark plug hole to feel when the cylinder is at the top. Don't trust that your harmonic balancer is corect.

now mark the harmonic balancer and not if you are on the exhaust stroke or compression stroke. 0 deg compression, 180 deg exhaust.

on the compression stroke both your valves should be Fully closed. Then turn the engine the correct direction. Whatch the valves. The exhaust valve should not open until the piston has reached near the bottom of its travel. (the exact opening would be in your cam specs) approx 180 degree on the balancer from where your marked top dead center.

This is not 100 accurate because it is hard to do precise measurements without a cam dregree tool and your exact cam specs. However, any larger errors in Cam Timing should be easy to spot.



Other possiblitities. You mentioned you have points. Did you check the static gap? Its been many a moon since i've messed with points but if your gap is grossley off you can cause the timing to be way off as well.

So reset/recheck the gap and then set with a dwell meter once the engine is running again.

Steve

[4eyedhatch]

well thanks, thats the in depth kind of direction i was looking for.

the guy who put my points in moved the distributor, he also gapped the points by eye, so im hoping this is where the problem is. do you think a brand new timing chain could skip teeth like that?

[roller4v]

It shouldn't but who knows. I would definately get a second opinion from someone else before I started tearing the timing cover off.

You really need to get away from points. I don't think anyone runs them anymore. There should be a Electronic Ignition convertion kit for your distributor. Or just switch to a Duraspark II setup.

if its not your points or timing chain then i'm pretty much out of ideas.

[4eyedhatch]

well i just bought a mallory ultralite distributor and a new set of plugs, hopefully itll start when im finished putting it all in, what should the plugs be gapped at?