Need advice on subfames

Scottyboy · 06-20-2003, 11:58 AM

I plan on getting my subframe connectors soon. I am set on getting the powdercoated maximum motorsport full lengths. Were is the best place to order them from? I also need a good shop in San Antonio to weld them in. Any ideas?
thanks.

jason10mm · 06-20-2003, 12:08 PM

I'm interested in this as well. Toni, can you do SFCs? As for where to order, MM themselves are probably the best spot. Maybe mustangsuspension.com or GEFracing has them though? I'm planning on shipping them straight to the store though, don't think I can haul those in the 'vert!

**bandit** · 06-20-2003, 12:15 PM

you guys might also want to consider kenny brown's:

click the pic for more info.

those are the ones that nighthawk got, they are cheaper than MM's subframes connectors and still get the job done with the cross braces and stuff.

-jeff

JohnS · 06-20-2003, 01:14 PM

AB&T transmission in round rock has some killer full length subrames and matrix bracing if you want to go all out.

Musclestang721 · 06-20-2003, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnS
AB&T transmission in round rock has some killer full length subrames and matrix bracing if you want to go all out.

custom built .. and extremely rigid from what i understand.. i waiting to see if he can do some for me so i can have them... since my car is gonna be a pia... and probalby cost a fortune

Allnuts · 06-20-2003, 04:39 PM

Can Anybody tell me the dimension for some subframe connector so I could fabricate some, They look fairly easy especially when you have a welding shop.

Blue91 · 06-20-2003, 10:46 PM

Do NOT NOT NOT waste your money or time with Kenny Brown SFC's They are paper thin pieces of SHEEEIT.

The MM's are nice, but are pricey. You can make your own, stronger ones for half the price.

I've made and installed SFC's for almost 2 years now, and have YET to see a set stronger than the ones I make. Check out the drawings for the full length SFC's here.... http://www.oldwestracing.com/articles/subconn/subs.htm

A lot of pics here..... http://home.houston.rr.com/blue91/Nancy

http://pomofo.com/SubframeConnectors...y/trkpony1.jpg
http://pomofo.com/SubframeConnectors...y/trkpony2.jpg
http://pomofo.com/SubframeConnectors...y/trkpony3.jpg
http://pomofo.com/SubframeConnectors...y/trkpony4.jpg
http://pomofo.com/SubframeConnectors...y/trkpony5.jpg

Also, check pics in this post.....

http://www.westsidemustangs.com/for...1396&highlight=

(No Im not trying to make a sale... I'm not doing any more for a while. Finally graduated college and trying to get a REAL job.)

Hope this helps!

Regards,

JohnS · 06-21-2003, 10:38 PM

Nice looking work man.:2thumbup:

tire · 06-23-2003, 12:03 AM

well, if you have your mind made up with what brand you are getting, just make sure that when it is welded that it is done right. stitch-welding is optimal, and try to make the welder do it that way and not just weld the whole seem shut. (they need to be flexible)

Blue91 · 06-23-2003, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by V6PowerStang
well, if you have your mind made up with what brand you are getting, just make sure that when it is welded that it is done right. stitch-welding is optimal, and try to make the welder do it that way and not just weld the whole seem shut. (they need to be flexible)

Can you give me a reason WHY you think this is correct, and why you think SFC's need to be FLEXIBLE? Or is this just something you've "heard" from someone else?

I'm seriously interested in why this train of thought exists.

Regards,

dcm4136 · 06-23-2003, 01:26 AM

I am curious as well. I always understood that the point was to eliminate flex.

Allnuts · 06-23-2003, 07:29 AM

I may understand where he is coming from but not too sure. A mustang or any car with sub-frame connectors will still flex but not as much and when this happens pressure is applied to the sub-frame connector and the body of a car. Also not to mention on the welds or bolts of a subframe connector. So lets say for instance, the subs are weld only on the end points, when the body of a car flexs, if the welds are not strong enought it will break them b/c pressure is being applied to them also in the center of the sub. So if you weld a sub completely, when pressured is applied, it's like having no subframe connectors, the body will twist anyways. I think why there has to be some flexs, this is my opinion only :2thumbup:

Blue91 · 06-23-2003, 07:57 AM

Incorrect, but thanks for playing,

:P :P

A fully welded set will be MUCH stronger than one that's stitch welded. You don't want FLEX. That's the entire reason you put the SFC's on in the first place. If you put a "good" full length set on, you remove almost all the flexing in the frame. THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT. You don't want the car to flex.

Those Kenny Brown SFC's are so thin, they have been known to BEND while on cars. They don't do much at all to strengthen the chassis, b/c they are so small and such thin material.

Regards,

tire · 06-23-2003, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blue91
Can you give me a reason WHY you think this is correct, and why you think SFC's need to be FLEXIBLE? Or is this just something you've "heard" from someone else?

I'm seriously interested in why this train of thought exists.

Regards,

I'd appreciate it if you don't attack and just question.

Nick from Nick's mufflers in Plano, TX has been doing subframes, exhaust, and other welding for more than 20 years. He is a very knowledgeable older man and he taught me a thing or two while he was working on my car. I don't remember everything he said. He did however say that people would say the same things you are, and that it was still better to do it the stitch way.

Maybe for track cars it should be welded completely on there, but he does them the other way for street cars.

EDIT - my subframes weren't little thin ones. they were rectangular and thick. i got them from a no name company off of ebay for 40 bucks, and Nick said they would be fine for my car.

**bandit** · 06-23-2003, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by V6PowerStang

Maybe for track cars it should be welded completely on there, but he does them the other way for street cars.

hmm...perhaps that's the case. drag cars need chassis stiffening for the straight line launches, while street cars may need it for auto crossing and corner carving.

redrum · 06-23-2003, 02:48 PM

like nighthawk, i am ordering kenny brown subframe connectors later today. toni said he would install them for me (for a price of course). so im pretty sure he would do them for other people as well, just pm him to see what his installation price is for you..

Blue91 · 06-23-2003, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by V6PowerStang
I'd appreciate it if you don't attack and just question.

Please quote where I "attacked" you.

Sorry for tryin to steer you guys clear of putting crap on your cars (Kenny Brown, HPM, etc etc SFC's). I obviously know nothing about Mustangs, how the stresses work on the cars, and the strengths of materials involved.

I'm done with this thread, it's falling on deaf ears, heheheehe.

Regards,

redrum · 06-24-2003, 12:37 AM

ok blue91.. if kenny brown isnt good. who is better, and why?

Nighthawk · 06-24-2003, 11:24 AM

i'm staisfied with the kenny brown SFCs

maybe the super subs are different...cause they're not paper thin

Scottyboy · 06-24-2003, 05:30 PM

im getting the maximum full lengths. bare metal though. i have to grind off the powder coating anyway right? so why pay for it. What can i use to coat them after i get them welded on?

06-20-2003, 11:58 AM	#1
Scottyboy Man law? Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Converse Posts: 4,529 Trader Rating: (1)	Need advice on subfames I plan on getting my subframe connectors soon. I am set on getting the powdercoated maximum motorsport full lengths. Were is the best place to order them from? I also need a good shop in San Antonio to weld them in. Any ideas? thanks.

06-20-2003, 12:08 PM	#2
jason10mm SassyCassy's guy :P Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Antonio Posts: 574 Trader Rating: (0)	I'm interested in this as well. Toni, can you do SFCs? As for where to order, MM themselves are probably the best spot. Maybe mustangsuspension.com or GEFracing has them though? I'm planning on shipping them straight to the store though, don't think I can haul those in the 'vert! __________________

06-20-2003, 12:15 PM	#3
bandit Can I has Procharger? Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bulverde, TX Posts: 15,017 Trader Rating: (0)	you guys might also want to consider kenny brown's: click the pic for more info. those are the ones that nighthawk got, they are cheaper than MM's subframes connectors and still get the job done with the cross braces and stuff. -jeff __________________

06-20-2003, 10:46 PM	#7
Blue91 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Spring, TX Posts: 40 Trader Rating: (0)	Do NOT NOT NOT waste your money or time with Kenny Brown SFC's They are paper thin pieces of SHEEEIT. The MM's are nice, but are pricey. You can make your own, stronger ones for half the price. I've made and installed SFC's for almost 2 years now, and have YET to see a set stronger than the ones I make. Check out the drawings for the full length SFC's here.... http://www.oldwestracing.com/articles/subconn/subs.htm A lot of pics here..... http://home.houston.rr.com/blue91/Nancy http://pomofo.com/SubframeConnectors...y/trkpony1.jpg http://pomofo.com/SubframeConnectors...y/trkpony2.jpg http://pomofo.com/SubframeConnectors...y/trkpony3.jpg http://pomofo.com/SubframeConnectors...y/trkpony4.jpg http://pomofo.com/SubframeConnectors...y/trkpony5.jpg Also, check pics in this post..... http://www.westsidemustangs.com/for...1396&highlight= (No Im not trying to make a sale... I'm not doing any more for a while. Finally graduated college and trying to get a REAL job.) Hope this helps! Regards, __________________ Fred Bingham http://www.PoMoFo.com http://www.PoMoFoRacing.com Last edited by Blue91; 06-21-2003 at 11:57 PM.

06-23-2003, 12:03 AM	#9
tire ka-chow! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: SoCal Posts: 5,745 Trader Rating: (1)	well, if you have your mind made up with what brand you are getting, just make sure that when it is welded that it is done right. stitch-welding is optimal, and try to make the welder do it that way and not just weld the whole seem shut. (they need to be flexible) __________________ littleblackcoupe (9:24:18 PM): I could have brought my coupe out......... littleblackcoupe (9:26:58 PM): just ask tim if it is fast.......... tire26 (9:27:11 PM): why? in case i cared? :-) littleblackcoupe (9:27:34 PM): I doubt you do........ littleblackcoupe (9:27:44 PM): I could give your cousin a ride.......... littleblackcoupe (9:27:50 PM): :-P tire26 (9:28:02 PM): what, a ride that is really fast and over in a couple minutes? littleblackcoupe (9:28:03 PM): lmao littleblackcoupe (9:28:20 PM): that may be you tire26 (9:28:21 PM): jerky, loud, and scary? littleblackcoupe (9:28:28 PM): 2 pump chump........

06-20-2003, 01:14 PM	#4
JohnS Coupe Dude Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Leander, Tx (near Austin) Posts: 644 Trader Rating: (0)	AB&T transmission in round rock has some killer full length subrames and matrix bracing if you want to go all out.

06-20-2003, 04:39 PM	#6
Allnuts LoneStarStangs Addict Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Antonio,Tx Posts: 704 Trader Rating: (-1)	Can Anybody tell me the dimension for some subframe connector so I could fabricate some, They look fairly easy especially when you have a welding shop.

06-21-2003, 10:38 PM	#8
JohnS Coupe Dude Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Leander, Tx (near Austin) Posts: 644 Trader Rating: (0)	Nice looking work man.:2thumbup:

06-23-2003, 01:26 AM	#11
dcm4136 Ooh-Rah Marine Corps Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,166 Trader Rating: (0)	I am curious as well. I always understood that the point was to eliminate flex. __________________ 88 vert Be polite and professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

06-23-2003, 07:29 AM	#12
Allnuts LoneStarStangs Addict Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Antonio,Tx Posts: 704 Trader Rating: (-1)	I may understand where he is coming from but not too sure. A mustang or any car with sub-frame connectors will still flex but not as much and when this happens pressure is applied to the sub-frame connector and the body of a car. Also not to mention on the welds or bolts of a subframe connector. So lets say for instance, the subs are weld only on the end points, when the body of a car flexs, if the welds are not strong enought it will break them b/c pressure is being applied to them also in the center of the sub. So if you weld a sub completely, when pressured is applied, it's like having no subframe connectors, the body will twist anyways. I think why there has to be some flexs, this is my opinion only :2thumbup:

06-23-2003, 07:57 AM	#13
Blue91 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Spring, TX Posts: 40 Trader Rating: (0)	Incorrect, but thanks for playing, :P :P A fully welded set will be MUCH stronger than one that's stitch welded. You don't want FLEX. That's the entire reason you put the SFC's on in the first place. If you put a "good" full length set on, you remove almost all the flexing in the frame. THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT. You don't want the car to flex. Those Kenny Brown SFC's are so thin, they have been known to BEND while on cars. They don't do much at all to strengthen the chassis, b/c they are so small and such thin material. Regards, __________________ Fred Bingham http://www.PoMoFo.com http://www.PoMoFoRacing.com Last edited by Blue91; 06-23-2003 at 08:00 AM.

06-23-2003, 02:48 PM	#16
redrum ...So I dub thee Unforgiven. Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Aggieland & SATX Posts: 8,250 Trader Rating: (0)	like nighthawk, i am ordering kenny brown subframe connectors later today. toni said he would install them for me (for a price of course). so im pretty sure he would do them for other people as well, just pm him to see what his installation price is for you..

06-24-2003, 12:37 AM	#18
redrum ...So I dub thee Unforgiven. Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Aggieland & SATX Posts: 8,250 Trader Rating: (0)	ok blue91.. if kenny brown isnt good. who is better, and why?

06-24-2003, 11:24 AM	#19
Nighthawk technology > displacement Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Antonio Posts: 4,658 Trader Rating: (6)	i'm staisfied with the kenny brown SFCs maybe the super subs are different...cause they're not paper thin __________________ My Garage

06-24-2003, 05:30 PM	#20
Scottyboy Man law? Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Converse Posts: 4,529 Trader Rating: (1)	im getting the maximum full lengths. bare metal though. i have to grind off the powder coating anyway right? so why pay for it. What can i use to coat them after i get them welded on?

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