[Bigdrumma22]

Ok, so as I guess is the typical case... I'm now finally running lean according to my ecu after about 3 weeks with almost all the bolt-ons on. The last addition was Kook's L/T's which threw a code at first, then it corrected it self, and then threw the codes again monday. MIL has been on since due to P0133, P0153, and P1151. It still feels the same driving, so I'm not too worried about it, but I don't know if I should be. What I want to know is what are your suggestions to remedy this... Would a larger injector cure this? A custom tune easiest route?? Am I causing any harm by driving under (normal conditions of course) for any certain period of time. All mods can be seen in my sig and thanks for any info.

[Allnuts]

Originally Posted by Bigdrumma22

Ok, so as I guess is the typical case... I'm now finally running lean according to my ecu after about 3 weeks with almost all the bolt-ons on. The last addition was Kook's L/T's which threw a code at first, then it corrected it self, and then threw the codes again monday. MIL has been on since due to P0133, P0153, and P1151. It still feels the same driving, so I'm not too worried about it, but I don't know if I should be. What I want to know is what are your suggestions to remedy this... Would a larger injector cure this? A custom tune easiest route?? Am I causing any harm by driving under (normal conditions of course) for any certain period of time. All mods can be seen in my sig and thanks for any info.

Hope this helps (OBD-II Trouble Codes - OBD-II DTC Trouble Codes Repair Help Site)
P0133, P0153 -Oxygen Sensor Circuit Slow Response caused by
* The oxygen sensor is faulty
* The wiring to the sensor is broken / frayed
* There is an exhaust leak

P1151- Lack of HO2S-21 Switch, Sensor Indicates Lean cause by

Electrical:

* Short to VPWR in the harness or HO2S
* Water in the harness connector
* Open/shorted HO2S circuit
* Corrosion or poor mating terminals and wiring
* Damaged HO2S
* Damaged PCM

Fuel System:

* Excessive fuel pressure
Leaking/contaminated fuel injectors
Leaking fuel pressure regulator
Low fuel pressure or running out of fuel
Vapor recovery system

Induction System:

* Air leaks after the MAF
* Vacuum Leaks

PCV system:

* Improperly seated engine oil dipstick

EGR System:

* Leaking gasket
* Stuck EGR valve
* Leaking diaphragm or EVR

Base Engine:

* Oil overfill
* Cam Timing
* Cylinder compression
* Exhaust leaks before or near the HO2S(s)

[96greengt]

Larger injectors will do you no good as the PCM will still think they are stock unless told so by custom tuning. Tuning around it will be your best bet and get maximum power along with fuel economy, best not to stay in it (unless you know what ping sounds like) then get out of it. Running lean at WOT = bad. Better to run fat then lean at WOT.

The pcm can only compensate for so much.

[Bigdrumma22]

Originally Posted by Allnuts

Hope this helps (OBD-II Trouble Codes - OBD-II DTC Trouble Codes Repair Help Site)
P0133, P0153 -Oxygen Sensor Circuit Slow Response caused by
* The oxygen sensor is faulty
* The wiring to the sensor is broken / frayed
* There is an exhaust leak

P1151- Lack of HO2S-21 Switch, Sensor Indicates Lean cause by

Electrical:

* Short to VPWR in the harness or HO2S
* Water in the harness connector
* Open/shorted HO2S circuit
* Corrosion or poor mating terminals and wiring
* Damaged HO2S
* Damaged PCM

Fuel System:

* Excessive fuel pressure
Leaking/contaminated fuel injectors
Leaking fuel pressure regulator
Low fuel pressure or running out of fuel
Vapor recovery system

Induction System:

* Air leaks after the MAF
* Vacuum Leaks

PCV system:

* Improperly seated engine oil dipstick

EGR System:

* Leaking gasket
* Stuck EGR valve
* Leaking diaphragm or EVR

Base Engine:

* Oil overfill
* Cam Timing
* Cylinder compression
* Exhaust leaks before or near the HO2S(s)

Helps a lil' with some other things to look at. The front o2's are brand new and the rears are fairly new, or so I'm told. I know all those things are "typical" to look for on a stock car, but being that I've done all the usual mods to cause this situation, I think it would be extreme coincidence for one of those things to be the problem. EGR or small vacuum leak possible, but didn't have the problem until the L/T's went on... just food for thought...

Originally Posted by 96greengt

Larger injectors will do you no good as the PCM will still think they are stock unless told so by custom tuning. Tuning around it will be your best bet and get maximum power along with fuel economy, best not to stay in it (unless you know what ping sounds like) then get out of it. Running lean at WOT = bad. Better to run fat then lean at WOT.

The pcm can only compensate for so much.

Yes, that's what I meant by "normal driving conditions". I know WOT either way can be bad and I haven't. It's been driving like normal, just didn't know if there are any long term damages that can occur. Ok, I didn't think the ecu, or pcm, not sure which controls it of if they're one in the same would recognize the injectors either... just curious. My other vehicle has no computer, so troubleshooting all this is new to me. Thanks for the info and keep it coming.

[96greengt]

Ford's 02 sensors have a tendency to learn lean and rich conditions which lead to slow/lazy readings and ultimately failed sensors. The above poster obviously did a copy and paste from a google search I imagine and is correct in a sense for factory tables and stock applications, however, when you change things that modify air flow in and out (along with other supporting mods) the PCM can only compensate for so much, that is when the custom tunning comes into play.

If it is worth anything to you, my MIL will turn on on occasion (giving me a lean code for bank 2). I know there are no vacuum leaks, much less over filled oil, exhaust leaks or failed/lazy 02 sensors (in fact, mine are quite active).

Running with it untuned may or may not result in a failed 02 sooner or later, but then again, many repair shops will recommend replacing them every 30-60k miles, depending on applications.

[Bigdrumma22]

Originally Posted by 96greengt

Ford's 02 sensors have a tendency to learn lean and rich conditions which lead to slow/lazy readings and ultimately failed sensors. The above poster obviously did a copy and paste from a google search I imagine and is correct in a sense for factory tables and stock applications, however, when you change things that modify air flow in and out (along with other supporting mods) the PCM can only compensate for so much, that is when the custom tunning comes into play.

If it is worth anything to you, my MIL will turn on on occasion (giving me a lean code for bank 2). I know there are no vacuum leaks, much less over filled oil, exhaust leaks or failed/lazy 02 sensors (in fact, mine are quite active).

Running with it untuned may or may not result in a failed 02 sooner or later, but then again, many repair shops will recommend replacing them every 30-60k miles, depending on applications.

Yeah, that's basically what I replied to him. All that stuff on a stock engine I'm more likely to look for, but since it has all the bolt-ons I would easily look past those things, especially since it all occured when I added the final pieces to the bolt-on puzzle. It came on that first time after the install and it went away on it's own, but this time it stayed on, so I guess it had enough. I'm pretty sure I have no vacuum leaks, at least no obvious ones. Oil is fine. You said there were no exhaust leaks, so I'll trust you on that, because you have an ear for it. How can it cause o2 failure? And you don't have the luxury of the genesis anymore, right??

[96greengt]

If the 02 reads lean more times then not, it builds a memory. Kind of like a bed, the more you lay in it, the more prone it is to developing a dip where you sleep. Primitive, I know, but it is a good example.

And I know for a fact, there are no exhaust leaks and the 02 sensors I installed are relatively new, low mileage 02 sensors.

[Bigdrumma22]

So is a tune going to turn off the sensors or tell them to read a different range? Or would the air/fuel/timing just be adjusted with a tune to compensate for the lean condition??

[96greengt]

The latter since you have cats.

[Bigdrumma22]

Damnsit.... now where the heck am I gonna get it tuned is the question... Any shops have openings soon???

[AdRock]

Does the CAI you have have a sharp bend right before the MAF. I've heard quite a few times of this causing a lean condition.

[Bigdrumma22]

Originally Posted by AdRock

Does the CAI you have have a sharp bend right before the MAF. I've heard quite a few times of this causing a lean condition.

I wouldn't call it sharp, but it's about a 90* technically. It's a nice large diameter coming from the fender. It's a Roush in case you didn't see that in the sig. Almost all of the fender kits are like that though, so I would have to change intakes to get around that.

[AdRock]

You could try rotating the MAF and se if it would help.

[Bigdrumma22]

Originally Posted by AdRock

You could try rotating the MAF and se if it would help.

What are you talking about???

[95 GTS]

this is what LTs have done on every 4.6 i have ever seen who actually admitted the issues they had instead of just saying "they are great"

you need a tune. You can get a sc tuner and order it with your mods from modular depot. or you can go to any of the 5 people that dyno tune mustangs in the area and they will get you within 5 hp of eachother.

Murrillo
psi
lethal
henderson
Maximum velocity...

[Bigdrumma22]

Originally Posted by 95 GTS

this is what LTs have done on every 4.6 i have ever seen who actually admitted the issues they had instead of just saying "they are great"

you need a tune. You can get a sc tuner and order it with your mods from modular depot. or you can go to any of the 5 people that dyno tune mustangs in the area and they will get you within 5 hp of eachother.

Murrillo
psi
lethal
henderson
Maximum velocity...

That's exactly why I posted because I know I'm not the only one who has had issues with it. I don't think I'm getting the full potential out of them without a tune anyways, so that's the plan. I just need to know who can do it the quickest and most efficiently. I don't want to be on a waiting list for a month before they can get to my car.

[stangfreak]

It needs a tune as was said.

[96greengt]

You can't just do a walk in and expect them to drop what they are doing for you, you have to understand the reason shops take a while is due to the mass work in there. be patient, set an appoinment, get in in and done, if you rush them, you will get a shitty tune.

[Bigdrumma22]

Originally Posted by 96greengt

You can't just do a walk in and expect them to drop what they are doing for you, you have to understand the reason shops take a while is due to the mass work in there. be patient, set an appoinment, get in in and done, if you rush them, you will get a shitty tune.

I haven't rushed anyone or asked anyone to drop anything. I'm just asking for suggestions on who can do it, or to see if one of those shops will post up how busy they are etc. AND I haven't called anyone yet as I was hoping for one to pop out at me, but none do, so it'll just have to be luck of the draw. There's way too many opinions (good and bad) of the local shops on here that don't help the decision, but I just gotta pick one.

[3xstangs]

Originally Posted by Bigdrumma22

I haven't rushed anyone or asked anyone to drop anything. I'm just asking for suggestions on who can do it, or to see if one of those shops will post up how busy they are etc. AND I haven't called anyone yet as I was hoping for one to pop out at me, but none do, so it'll just have to be luck of the draw. There's way too many opinions (good and bad) of the local shops on here that don't help the decision, but I just gotta pick one.

I put LT's, x-pipe, and cold air on my 08 gt and yes you need a tune. Lethal did mine with an sct x-cal and it was lean just from exhaust and cold air. I also went catless and the nice thing about the x-cal is the ability to turn off the rear O2 sensor so it will stop trying to read your catylyst system.